Hi

I was suggested this as a friend, but I have to say, Yahoo Messenger as a contact method hasn't been active since 2019, this is a fresh install.

I have to say that this may be abandon ware at this point.

That's rather unfair.

MilkScript(https://www.rememberthemilk.com/services/milkscript/methods/), introduced in 2022 was a massive new feature that must have taken several man-months of development.

My guess is that RTM have decided that trying to match their much bigger competitors feature-for-feature is a infeasible and destructive, and instead they will try to offer unique things that others do not. Whether this is what you want is of course your decision.

I agree with OP. It seems that in recent years the development of RTM has stalled.

Sure, MilkScript seems like a unique and useful feature for a small bunch of users (since some programming knowledge is required), but what about the rest of highly requested features from the Ideas section in the Forums? I do not need RTM to follow the footsteps of competitors, but as a paying user since 2010 I feel like the RTM creators do not care about user feedback at all. Multifactor authentication, that is a security standard by now, has been requested 12 years ago and still has not been implemented.

This is frustrating.

I also believe that RTM has been standing still for years.
So many interesting features people pointed out on the forum and nothing.

MilkScript as great as it may be, is still a niche feature.

Even I, being a software developer myself, don't find it that appealing.

When they raised the yearly subscription price from $25 to $39 (almost double!), I hoped that things would change but they didn't!

RTM is the ONLY service I use on desktop that still doesn't have dark mode implemented.

I don't need them to match any other service, I need them to listen to their users.

4-5 years ago I asked them to add the ability to postpone a task by a couple of hours (just like you can postpone a task by one day).
It's a super easy thing to code and I had to code it myself using various JS hacks because they just didn't bother doing anything about it.

Any new feature we suggest, they ask us to write in the ideas forum.
And anything in the ideas forum is ignored for YEARS!

It's useless.
I'll cancel my auto renewal and this May when my subscription expires, I'm switching to something else.

I already gave up. My subscription expired a week ago and I am in the process of moving to another service. It is a fuss to move after many years of using RTM, but staying here is not a reasonable alternative.

RTM is one of the services I was using, rooting for (and paying for) the longest, but enough is enough.

Which service did you switch to?

Interesting... I was just thinking of getting the premium service, but I noticed that RTM does not update its software often. Most of the articles and updates are at least a year old. I really like using the free version but is this something we can rely on and hope that it can keep up or even stay in the market? Should I switch to something else like Todoist? Its expensive $48/yr compared to $39/yr, but Todoist gets updated every week or at least every month for sure even if it is a minor change.

@danielalbu Todoist, since it seems close enough UX-wise, so that I do not have to change all the habits I picked up with RTM through the years.

@ssark, RTM seems like abandonware at this point.
Paying $39 and getting no updates is more expensive than paying $48 and getting something in return.

I'll give Todoist a try.

What task managers have start dates? It looks like Toodledo does. Any others?

One major area in which RTM comes ahead is that it allows setting up smart list or filters to view all of your completed tasks. Todoist lacks this feature.

@jonathan.pilborough: If this is really the case, (The goal is not to compete with other services but to upgrade to what others offer), then it is a smart move. When I compared Todoist with RTM, I noticed that RTM has several of the major features. Filters (smart list), NLP (smart add), Tags List, Due Date, Subtask, Reminders. Some of these features are only available with a Pro Account.

The only downside is RTM does not upgrade frequently, has fewer integrations, and needs a professional logo. I think its time for a change from the 'cow' logo to something that people can use in an office environment.

I've started using Todoist and it's much more user friendly and it's nicer to look at (less cluttered)

I used the check all of my Completed Tasks in RTM from time to time, but I can live without it.

The Karma, Productivity Meter & various other features in Todoist seem better in the long run for me.

I'm starting to make the switch.

Never mind, seems like there's a well hidden "All Completed Tasks" feature in Todoist.

So I'm good to go!

I have been here since RTM was first released, and I know full well that the user base has sought more updates and communication from the devs. That point cannot be argued.

But…

I must take issue with the comment above: “Paying $39 and getting no updates is more expensive than paying $48 and getting something in return.

It’s hard for me to understand why you’d want to buy updates when I think what anyone using a task manager wants is a tool. Yes, it needs to be functional, and ideally integrate with new things over time, but fundamentally, you’re buying a tool. When I buy a drill, I don’t want updates, I want a drill that works well, and reliably, and for a long time.

I think the RTM developers have created a tool. It’s idiosyncratic, and not for everyone, but it is very powerful, and it does what it sets out to do. Could it do more? Presumably. Could it be better? Arguably. But the point is, it’s a tool. If it enables you to accomplish what you want, then pay for it and use it. If it doesn’t, then don’t. But yelling at RTM for not offering new doodads all the time, in the face of years of them clearly not being interested in tweaking their product, seems like the definition of insanity to me.

@ranbarton When I buy a drill, I get a certain set of features, pay for them ONCE and the drill is mine until its inevitable end-of-life.

If RTM is a drill, then I should get it for life for a one-time-fee.

The whole idea behind a subscription model is that you're constantly getting new updates and you "get with the times".

I'll give a few examples from recent years:
• The RTM UI became clunky and outdated over the years, it just feels slow - so I created an IFTTT script that allows me to create a Trello card which immediately creates an RTM.
Which means I'm using a free 3rd party service to create tasks in a service I'm currently paying for just because it has a slow UI....

• Dark Mode - The fact that they didn't bother adding dark mode to the desktop app really baffles me!
This is the only website that just doesn't have it....
This just seems lazy.

• Sure, it's a useful tool, but tools change.
Just like you wouldn't use Office 2007 nowadays, you shouldn't use RTM 2007 (and keep paying for it).

In conclusion, I'm not asking much, I need a powerful to-do manager and RTM has been one for the first 5 years of me using it (2013-2018) but since then things just stopped.

If they want us to "buy" this app and get a set of features which will remain unchanged - then allow us to pay a lifetime one-time fee.
Otherwise, you're just paying every year for the ability to use an outdated app.

@ranbarton & @danielalbu - You both make very good points.

"If it enables you to accomplish what you want, then pay for it and use it. If it doesn’t, then don’t."

"If they want us to 'buy' this app and get a set of features which will remain unchanged - then allow us to pay a lifetime one-time fee. Otherwise, you're just paying every year for the ability to use an outdated app."

Here's some of my brainstorming:

RTM does serve my needs, and it does it well. I haven't noticed a slow UI. It does what I need it to do.

That said, I am paying annually for it. And I agree: it does seem like what I'm paying for is just the hosting of the service with no feature updates. There are a few annoyances with it that I'd love to be rid of.

My biggest fear with RTM is that at some point it'll go the way of TrueCrypt, a tool I used a LOT before the developers just dropped it without warning. But at least with TC it was a tool I could keep using at my own risk, no lost data. With RTM, if they decide to drop it, would I lose my task manager with all the data it contains? Would they simply cut the power and shut down the servers? That frightens me.

I think I'd feel a little better if they'd at least keep up with the blog or be better about their communication. Even if they decided that there would be no more updates, but they'd continue to host it and keep it safe and stable, I'd be OK with that (though $40/yr is a lot to pay for that). I'd be unhappy with the fee, but at least the fear of losing my task manager would be relieved.

There are a couple things that are causing me to stay with RTM for now.
1. It works so well for me as it is; just thinking of going somewhere else and starting over is tiresome. A "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, I guess.
2. As I've been accused of before, I am trying to remain optimistic about RTM. It is becoming harder to do that as more time goes by with no communication from the devs, but I really want to believe that their hiatus will end soon, and we'll get responses from them again.

Am I being foolish? Is this just wishful thinking? Maybe. I am doing regular backups of my RTM account, but I'm not sure there's much I'd be able to do with it if RTM was suddenly gone.

OK, this post is long enough. As I said, this is just a brainstorm, for my own sake more than anything.

@geojono and @danielalbu, you have good points. While having safety and security are important, so is getting an updated software that we can rely on knowing it is kept up well.

If anyone had a chance to try out NirvanaHQ, you will notice that it costs $50 for lifetime, with no upgrades. Years ago, I paid for service and then quickly realized that it was a mistake to pay the price. The UI is worse than RTM and the software is complicated for a to-do manager. There are not a lot of help/tips like this forum.

I do not think RTM will abruptly shut down, but if it ever comes close to that, they may ask us to export our data to another service. I realize that it is not an open-source software. So, I am guessing the small staff and the lack of funding may be the reason for very slow upgrades. A little less price- $25 or $30/yr would have been reasonable. On the other hand, Todoist and Trello has integrations but most will cost additional payment separately.

At least RTM is a lot better than NirvanaHQ and while the upgrades are slow, there are still some for now and may be more in the future.

Agree with all of your points - if development has stalled it's only fair that the situation is made transparent (to at least pro users). And if users are only paying for syncing/maintenance costs, the subscription cost should be significantly reduced as well.

Though I personally, I find the communication strategy rather dissapointing.

It ought to be a big advantage that users can communicate directly with the developers instead of a tech support drone, yet they seem unwilling to say anything at all apart from platitudes such as "Thanks for your feedback". It's particularly silly when representatives claim to be "passing on" information to what is according to the RTM About page... themselves, presumably in order to avoid having to give any actual response.

Hi @andrewski!
I'm sure you have read this post.
Why not chime in and tell us a bit about the product roadmap, and if you see RTM as a mature product that will only recieve bug fixes, or if further significant changes are planned. It would make your customers a lot happier.

It's no use, @jonathan.pilborough.
You won't get a proper response anytime soon.

Shortly after I wrote this post, I started transferring tasks to Todoist little by little and it certainly seems to be a better solution.

The last time I tried Todoist a couple of years ago, it felt like it's missing some important features that RTM had (like the ability reset subtasks if you complete the main recurring task).

But now, it seems that Todoist has everything that RTM has to offer AND MORE.

I've been a pro RTM user for exactly a decade.
And I would have stayed on for another decade, but it seems that feature development has stopped sometime in 2017.

So goodbye, RTM, it's been fun.

Well, I've looked into Todoist and there is a lot going for it. If the time comes when I have to move away from RTM, Todoist would probably be my tool of choice. But there are a couple of things keeping me on RTM for now, both of which have to do with the time and effort it'd take me to make the move to Todoist.

1. No Migration Path. Since there's no migration path to get my tasks from RTM to Todoist, the tasks have to be moved over one at a time. It would take quite a while to move all my tasks over, set each one up with the proper repeats, tags, etc., and get it working the way I'd need. And then build the filters to work as Smart Lists, etc.

2. No Start Dates. I use start dates in RTM extensively. Todoist doesn't have start dates. I've seen their workaround: to add a subtask to each task and name it "Start {task name}" with the due date of that subtask as the start date for the parent task. But besides being a rather clunky workaround, that basically doubles the time it would take to move my tasks over there. Also, it lists the subtasks as Overdue in Todoist. A minor issue, I guess, but I don't like seeing something listed as Overdue when it's not yet due. In my mind, overdue tasks get priority treatment over tasks that have started but are not yet due. That would be an annoyance.

Those are my 2 major issues with thinking of moving to Todoist. I do think that Todoist would be the tool I'd move to if I end up having to move (e.g. if RTM goes under), but for now it's not worth it to me.

Some minor things missing in Todoist include after repeats and locations.

A few things that I really like about Todoist that RTM doesn't have:

1. Uncompletable Tasks. This is a task without a "complete" box next to it. Very useful for planning boards, etc.

2. Speaking of Planning Boards, the Boards view is a very nice feature. I would certainly make great use of that if it were available in RTM.

3. That tasks can have Descriptions as well as Comments is also a handy feature.

Anyway, I'll be staying with RTM for now. If RTM forces me to leave, Todoist would probably be where I'd go, but as I said already, it's just not worth the time and effort right now.

I see that this post no longer appears at the top of the Help Forum when it's updated. This makes me wonder if it's being intentionally suppressed by RTM. If so, that's pretty petty of RTM, I think. Perhaps there's a legitimate reason for it and I'm just being my typical cynical self. Does make me wonder, though.

Geojono: Todoist DOES has AFTER although it isn't intuitive at all.

every 10 weeks (every)
!every 10 weeks (after)

Thanks, azclaire! I didn't know that. I appreciate you pointing that out.

The fact that no-one at RTM has responded to this thread in over three months pretty much tells us all we need to know.

I've been a happy RTM user for well over a decade and I haven't found anything in those other tools that I find compelling. Don't really care about kanban boards for my todo list, dark mode, or being able to postpone a task by a few hours. I just want a solid todo list manager that works seamlessly across all of my devices. RTM does that.

I agree that RTM works great, as I've already mentioned above. But I really would like some assurance from the RTM staff that there's a future for RTM. Prior to the pandemic, there were frequent updates and communication from RTM, the blog was updated at least weekly, and there was great confidence that RTM was vital and would remain so. Then it just suddenly went silent. At first I assumed that the pandemic was to blame: the staff were all working from home and they, like the rest of the world, were trying to figure out a new way to exist. But, with the silence from the devs (and others of the RTM people, besides the very occasional response from Andrew) ever since, my fear is that this is really an abandoned project.

My questions based on that:
- Is RTM abandoned apart from the hosting of the service?
- If it is, what does that mean for the future of RTM?
- - Will the plug be pulled someday without warning?
- - Will I therefore lose all my RTM data?

These questions cause me to fear, to be honest. If I suddenly lose everything (even though I back it up weekly), I'd be in a pretty bad spot. This is especially true since there's no easy way to recover, even with the backup—it seems like the backups are designed to be restored only to RTM.

My suspicion is that RTM is abandoned except for the hosting service. In my extra cynical moments, I suspect that the only reason RTM is maintaining the hosting service is because they are making money off the Pro accounts. Why not just keep the hosting service and keep collecting the Pro fees without worrying about further development?

Maybe I'm way off base here; I hope so. But my fear remains.

I did find a semi-convenient way to import my tasks into Todoist, so I've gone ahead and moved there. I'll allow my RTM Pro account to expire when it runs out. Then again, if RTM changes my mind, perhaps I'll stay with RTM (I do prefer RTM). But they've done nothing to convince me that they're still working on the product. I can't risk losing it without a way to easily recover.

And even if they intend to provide the hosting service indefinitely, $40/yr is a steep price to pay just for hosting. I'm not really willing to do that.

Moving away from RTM was not something I ever wanted to do, but for the reasons I've stated, I had to do it. It took a few hours since there's no direct migration from RTM to Todoist, but now that it's done, it's working well over there. And there's frequent communication from the devs and staff. Clearly they intend to contend for the long haul.

An excellent post from Geojono which I wholeheartedly agree with.

For some time, I admired the fact that the RTM staff allowed this thread to grow without interfering, but by now I am mor dismayed that no one has appeared to defend and explain and point the way towards a future worth staging for. I think that it would be useful to hear from the developers about their plans for RTM to enable their customers a fuller sense of where things stand.

…a future worth staying for…

ranbarton: "I think that it would be useful to hear from the developers about their plans for RTM...."

Yes! I agree. It would be great to hear from someone—anyone—at RTM that might give some sort of confidence that there is a future for RTM. But I'm not holding my breath. There have been many calls out to seek some response or word from the devs with nothing but silence from them in return.

I can't afford to run the risk of losing one of my primary productivity tools, so I had to seek a more stable platform.

As a loooooong time RTM user (I believe they were in their second year when I joined) I have always admired that RTM has stuck to being the one and only task manager that manages lists of tasks and nothing else. Each and every other product tries to become the next one-stop-shop project management site.

We use RTM in a business context (where the 'pro' actually means something) and the yearly license is peanuts compared to the value that we get out of it; we run entire business processes on the Spartan feature set and it runs well because it doesn't try to do or be anything else. The start date feature alone is worth it. The extensive keyboard controls make it so that we can build automations with TextBlaze. (a keystroke runner).

You want a dark mode? Get a style sheet plugin and hack it. I'm fairly sure you won't be the first person to want it so examples are bound to be available.

As for that argument that only updates are worth paying for: that is missing the point of the analogy completely. To wit: you buy a hammer once and use it for its lifetime. That is not what this is: your newspaper has probably not been functionally updated for a long time, but you have a subscription as long as you see value in the daily delivery. (it also has no dark mode, so go figure)

I do agree that it is wildly annoying that the entire communications strategy seems to be the helpdesk guy (Hi Andrew!) and the tech staff is actually run by the Monkey, but do not underestimate the amount of effort involved in keeping the accounts of 6 million users just running and merely answering the helpdesk email, let alone dealing with the issues.

So: if you feel Todoist is a better choice for you, or any other tool for that matter: let your license expire, export your data and take it somewhere else. Your choice need not be another users'.