How to move the cursor up and down.....?????
trav says:
Hi there everybody.
It might seem a little strange to ask this question, but I promise I've read through the keyboard shortcut list for several times and I can't find an answer to what should not be a problem: How to move up and down in a task list with the keyboard?!
Intuitively, I would absolutely go with the arrows-keys -- but this doesn't work. "J" and "K" for first task and last task, respectively, do work - but how to simply navigate....?!?
Sorry for bothering you if I am somehow blind or something...
Greetings,
Trav
P.S.: Using Firefox 3.0.1.1 on Windows Vista Business (German) with German QWERTZ Keyboard Layout
It might seem a little strange to ask this question, but I promise I've read through the keyboard shortcut list for several times and I can't find an answer to what should not be a problem: How to move up and down in a task list with the keyboard?!
Intuitively, I would absolutely go with the arrows-keys -- but this doesn't work. "J" and "K" for first task and last task, respectively, do work - but how to simply navigate....?!?
Sorry for bothering you if I am somehow blind or something...
Greetings,
Trav
P.S.: Using Firefox 3.0.1.1 on Windows Vista Business (German) with German QWERTZ Keyboard Layout
andrewski (Remember The Milk) says:
trav,
Like rajjan said, J and K should move down and up (respectively). It sounds like you're saying that J and K are going to the top and bottom of the list?
Like rajjan said, J and K should move down and up (respectively). It sounds like you're saying that J and K are going to the top and bottom of the list?
trav says:
Indeed... umm... that works.
Wow, this is SO unintuitive that I really didn't get it at first. Using horizontal aligned keys with some letters on them already is quite opposing to an intuitive control concept for navigating up-/downwards. But having the left one of these both keys navigating downwards and not vice versa is almost the worst mapping imaginable.
@rtm Team: You should really consider to improve that key assignment!
Nevertheless: Thank you guys for helping me out!
Greetings,
Trav
Wow, this is SO unintuitive that I really didn't get it at first. Using horizontal aligned keys with some letters on them already is quite opposing to an intuitive control concept for navigating up-/downwards. But having the left one of these both keys navigating downwards and not vice versa is almost the worst mapping imaginable.
@rtm Team: You should really consider to improve that key assignment!
Nevertheless: Thank you guys for helping me out!
Greetings,
Trav
andrewski (Remember The Milk) says:
The J/K keyboard navigation has some notable history: the VI editor and Gmail, most notably. (Other websites/programs also support these.) RTM is less innovating here and more following suit.
I'm not completely confident in the history, but from what I understand, VI's use of J and K (and all of its shortcuts) predate popular use of the arrow keys on computer keyboards, and j and k are on the home row of many keyboard layouts.
Of course, it's not the only way to navigate RTM, but they are useful once you get used to them.
I'm not completely confident in the history, but from what I understand, VI's use of J and K (and all of its shortcuts) predate popular use of the arrow keys on computer keyboards, and j and k are on the home row of many keyboard layouts.
Of course, it's not the only way to navigate RTM, but they are useful once you get used to them.
tomsteg says:
it seems, that the j-k-cursor movements can not be used in the last safari 3.0.1 Version for mac
andrewski (Remember The Milk) says:
tomsteg, we haven't had any issues with keyboard shortcuts in Safari 3.0.x for a while (most recently we fixed up 3.2.x).
If you haven't done so already, would it be possible to submit a Keyboard Shortcuts issue report via our support system?
Please select the issue that you're experiencing from the list on the left, and follow the steps shown. If your issue isn't listed, just click on "I'd like to report a new issue" on the left.
Your report should provide all the info that we need to investigate further, but we'll be in touch via email if we require any more details.
Thanks!
If you haven't done so already, would it be possible to submit a Keyboard Shortcuts issue report via our support system?
Please select the issue that you're experiencing from the list on the left, and follow the steps shown. If your issue isn't listed, just click on "I'd like to report a new issue" on the left.
Your report should provide all the info that we need to investigate further, but we'll be in touch via email if we require any more details.
Thanks!
trav says:
@andrewski: Thank you for your comment!
As a computer scientist with love for usability/user experience I do, of course, know VI but hate it.
I know that it allows for very fast interaction once you know how to use it but its interface design - from a usability perspective - is really really weak (It makes frequent use of modes and counterintuitive key assignments). It is really only for experts which are willing to learn the interface. (And, additionally, you have to be a frequent user because otherwise you will forget some of the keys again.)
For RTM, a modern, shining Web 2.0 application which should be used by everyone, I suggest to design an interface which is intuitively usable without (much) learning.
And actually, this is exactly the way you were going with the GUI in my opinion. In fact, this is the fact why a lot of people appreciate RTM.
Why should you go in a different (bad - in my eyes) direction with the keyboard interaction?
Greetings from Germany,
Trav
As a computer scientist with love for usability/user experience I do, of course, know VI but hate it.
I know that it allows for very fast interaction once you know how to use it but its interface design - from a usability perspective - is really really weak (It makes frequent use of modes and counterintuitive key assignments). It is really only for experts which are willing to learn the interface. (And, additionally, you have to be a frequent user because otherwise you will forget some of the keys again.)
For RTM, a modern, shining Web 2.0 application which should be used by everyone, I suggest to design an interface which is intuitively usable without (much) learning.
And actually, this is exactly the way you were going with the GUI in my opinion. In fact, this is the fact why a lot of people appreciate RTM.
Why should you go in a different (bad - in my eyes) direction with the keyboard interaction?
Greetings from Germany,
Trav
andrewski (Remember The Milk) says:
Trav, thanks for your comments; we appreciate them. I have a love/hate relationship with VI myself, and I know what you mean about its UI foibles.